Tal­mu­dic Ques­tion #98

What do you think is the sin­gle best cri­te­rion for telling an en­dosym­biont of a eu­kary­otic cell from an or­ganelle?

Post Script

I must come clean and con­fess that I for­mu­lated this ques­tion af­ter hav­ing read a most stim­u­lat­ing re­view by John Mc­Cutcheon and Nancy Moran that touches on this sub­ject. Some of the re­sponses you pro­vided are re­lated to con­sid­er­a­tions in this ar­ti­cle. Read and en­joy!
—Elio

 

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13 Comments
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barry
13 years ago

how far back you want to look? when we look that far back can we de­cide when its a eu­kary­otic cell? prokary­otes share all the time...

Daniel
13 years ago

I am not sure what the cri­te­rion would be ex­actly, but I think it would in­volve the de­gree of de­pen­dency on genes en­coded in the host nu­cleus.

Mehmet Berkmen
13 years ago

I'm not sure about this, but could de­pen­dence on host DNA poly­merase be a dis­tin­guish­ing fac­tor?

13 years ago

Prokary­otic sur­face fea­tures in­clud­ing pep­ti­do­gly­can, (lipo)teichoic acids, and cap­su­lar protieins/peptides

paul evans
13 years ago

An en­dosym­biont can gen­er­ate an elec­tro­chem­i­cal po­ten­tial across their own mem­brane,
[from me­tab­o­lism within their cy­to­plasm] with­out im­por­ta­tion of nu­cleus-en­coded and im­ported pro­teins.

Mark O. Martin
13 years ago

I think that the pres­ence of evo­lu­tion­ary echoes of in­de­pen­dence is the key point. Pep­ti­do­gly­can is not present in all bac­te­ria (or among the ar­chaea at all). Meta­bolic path­ways can be co-opted and har­nessed, blur­ring dis­tinc­tions. I guess I would be in­clined to stick with ev­i­dence of the "organelle/endosymbiont" hav­ing some kind of ge­netic blue­print: some DNA or RNA. And I guess we can add "com­part­men­tal­iza­tion" to the Venn di­a­gram of this co­nun­drum.

Indrani Roy
13 years ago

Mem­branes of en­dosym­bionts are dou­ble lay­ered?

Elena
13 years ago

may be, en­dosym­bionts do not rely on im­ported host pro­teins for ma­jor processes, e.g. tran­scrip­tion, trans­la­tion, DNA repli­ca­tion

bks
13 years ago

If the eu­kary­otic cell can ful­fill its life cy­cle with­out the or­ganelle, it's an en­dosym­biont.
–bks

13 years ago

Might there be a con­tin­uum from en­dosym­biont to or­ganelle? ... are there some that are dif­fi­cult to clas­sify one way or the other? (ask­ing out of ig­no­rance)

Johan Laserna
13 years ago

Per­haps the cri­te­ria is dis­ap­point­ingly con­tex­tual: if the endosymbiont/organelle is found only in spe­cial or­gans, or only in so­matic tis­sues, it is prob­a­bly an en­dosym­biont, not an or­ganelle.

13 years ago

If you al­ready know that the or­gan­ism in­side the cell is an en­dosym­biont, you can per­form an in situ stain against the con­served seg­ments of the bac­te­r­ial ri­bo­some and only the bac­te­ria will show up

bks
13 years ago

With re­spect to the post­script
http://download.bioon.com.cn/view/upload/201112/19191116_6450.pdf
–bks